The Fight for the Right to Repair: Challenging Planned Obsolescence
DIY enthusiasts, frustrated consumers, and the sustainably-minded unite to combat countless roadblocks strategically used by corporations to undermine the Right to Repair with Planned Obsolescence.
Episode 31- Part 2
6/5/2025
The first segment of our episode focused on how and why manufacturers intentionally design products into obsolescence. From hobbyists to environmentalists, a rising movement fights for the right to repair and modify their purchases, extending the life of their belongings. In Part II, Jorden and Kimberly consider how, despite corporate resistance, RTR advocates persist with community initiatives and a push for government intervention.
Key Topics Jorden and Kimberly discuss include
How the increasing shortage of skilled repair labor benefits MNCs
Why MNCs hate iFixit
How community initiatives promote repair culture
Why ‘you fix it’ equals ‘you break it’ for warranties
How the economic pressures and unexpected free time of COVID renewed interest in DIY repairs
Just how big the gap is between consumer needs and manufacturer support
Recommended Resources
In the Global South, it's a Need to Repair.
In the Global North, it's about the Right to Repair.
Episode Transcript
KIMBERLY
Welcome to this episode of Sustainable Planet. I'm political scientist, Kimberly Weir, and my co -host is Jordan Dye, a guy who knows an awful lot about sustainability issues. In part one of Planned Obsolescence, we took a look at why and how manufacturers intentionally design products to be less long -lasting and difficult to fix, making the landfill the more likely destination than the repair shop. Now we turn to what people are doing to fight for the right to repair. So, Jordan, do you fight for the right to repair anything in particular?
JORDEN
Well, it might not be the most surprising if you listen to the first episode, but vehicles is like my actual if that got to the point where I couldn't do it or they were, you know, really restricting the ways I would be I'd be quite upset at that.
KIMBERLY
I don't really as again, if you listen to the first part of this episode, you know, I don't really have a particular skill set for a lot of these types of things, at least that I'm aware of. But I certainly. I had some appliances that I really hated to part with. In particular, I had a toaster oven, the Euro toaster oven. And then I got another one. They actually still had it. And then they went out of business. And I was so bummed because I love this toaster oven. I ended up taking it apart so that I could take it to the scrap to, you know, so I didn't just end up throwing away an appliance. And I realized how easy, like how actually basic the construction of it was, but there was just no way to repair it. So I was really bummed about that one.
JORDEN
For me, it's I have. My iron, my iron for like clothes iron is the one my parents had. So like it's like and since I was probably like six or seven. So this thing is quite old now and it still works amazing. You know, going off our last episode, it was not designed to fail. But I'm really sad knowing that when this thing eventually burns out, there will be no way to fix it or get it back. And I'll be stuck with ones that will only last, you know, two or three years. And they'll have a lot of plastic parts on them,
KIMBERLY
they'll have a lot of plastic parts on them, too. Yeah. It's not like I think of irons are those things you could just knock somebody out with now modern irons are probably these lightweight things, right? Breaking your hand.
JORDEN
your hand. Yeah.
KIMBERLY
So when we talk about the right to repair, what we're actually talking about is that also the right to refurbish and reuse and basically extend the life of goods. I can't help about to think about like, I always think first of cars, like the restoring cars. And I just really, until you mentioned this in the last episode, I always really thought of this as, this is now an impractical hobby because I think of those old cars that people like, oh yeah, I'm going to get the parts and try to fix this up and it's going to be really cool. And, and like, why would anybody do that with a modern car? Because they're just pieces of fiberglass and all of these digital wires and stuff. And especially with hybrids, then you have to worry about the battery and, you know, like, but you're telling me that like. And you can still have grease monkeys around today who aren't specially trained by fill in the blank auto dealer and can do this.
JORDEN
Yeah, no, exactly. And like, I think in a lot of ways, it's actually easier now than it used to be. Right. So when I started working on cars, you had to get a Hanes manual to break down how to fully repair anything. And if you ever looked at those drawings. I don't know. Mechanics are smarter than I am in a lot of ways. That's what I know. And now, you know, as I said, you can go to YouTube, you can get a video from a repair shop showing you exactly how to do it. As I mentioned, you know, the OBD2 sensors, the onboard sensor that you need, it ranges from 20 to 50 bucks, you know, so it's affordable for most people to get into. And then the it's funny because. I know a lot of car people who aren't fans of electric because it doesn't have the same feel, doesn't have the same power. But then you have people like my dad, you know, who's in his 60s, been working on cars his entire life. And he cannot wait to convert this 92 Ford Ranger that he owns into an electric truck for his grandson. I had a Ford Ranger.
KIMBERLY
Ford Ranger. I had a 1994 Ford Ranger. I didn't.
JORDEN
Yeah. So we have a 92, a little red one still kicking around. And, you know, and he's looking into, should it be, should I go electric motor or should it be a wheel driven motors? And it's a whole new range of things to learn, but it's still, so that's like the far end. And I'm not saying most people will go that way, but for people who love cars and love working on them, it's just a new challenge. And then I'd say for most people, it's actually easier to get into in some ways than it would have been, you know, 30 years ago when you had to know a friend who could teach you, you had to like be especially trained. So yeah, this is an area where I think that now on the restoring them, yes, cars were, you know, I'd say better designed and much prettier back in the day. But the part of that, there's also safety reasons why they've gone to lighter cars, right? Like, so those also environmental.
KIMBERLY
also environmental.
JORDEN
and environmental reasons for miles per gallon. So it's the trade off between it. And then you're looking at, you know, replacing a bumper and those parts that new cars, that's still prohibitive. But for something that's 10 years old, you know, it's a couple hundred bucks. So you can you can again, we're going to that cost of repair versus cost of replacement on cars still keeps it within the range.
KIMBERLY
And of course, there are many reasons why people would want the right to repair, right? You've got that economic incentive to get the longest lifespan out of any product that you buy. And again, the environmental factor of why people are listening, because if you care about the environment, you want to reduce any waste that you can, particularly electronic waste, because we're still not to the point where... That can be broken down as efficiently to be cost effective enough of an incentive for corporations and businesses to actually do that at this point. We hope we're going to get there, but we're not quite there yet. And also just conserving resources from the front end. And so clever people who want to repair and modify their devices or just have that innate knowledge, like who can just look at an engine and just know exactly what they need to do. Like I envy those people. But, you know, these are people who really like the idea of being able to have that autonomy to do this and want to do this. And that's why there should be this right to repair.
JORDEN
Yeah, or even just I think it needs to be there to encourage people. I wonder, I think there's two cultural trends that are really going to push to change this. And this is just Jordan speculating now. So big, big speculation warning. But I wonder with the recent inflation we've seen globally. you know, over the last five years and continued consumer pressure, does that drive people to start looking at this as more of an option? So I think the other thing that was really holding it back is that more and more of this, as more and more of the economy has shifted away from concrete building things and into knowledge work and into more office jobs, people are more disconnected from building of things and the products and those skill sets. So I think on one hand, you have the lack of knowledge or comfortability with it. You know, we meet, I made the joke in the last episode that even I, feel like well this car is held together by jordan right but then you start talking about some electronic stuff and getting into that and you know people feel like they don't know so you have that kind of trend holding back but i'm wondering if this pressure on the economic side is going to push people to really look into this as more of an option well i also maybe a third thing to add to your speculation is what the effect of covid
KIMBERLY
i also maybe a third thing to add to your speculation is what the effect of covid And just that people had more time, people, you know, who were sort of intellectually curious or had that any capability said, hey, let me take this apart and see what happens. And just that was something that also moved people, more people into that interest that wouldn't have been there before as people were kind of pursuing hobbies to sell their, at least, you know, the time that they would have spent commuting.
JORDEN
No, it's a great point. But despite that, there's still a lot of challenges in the way for that kind of person who might be thinking about this for various reasons. And a big part of that is the lack of incentive on companies to make this. We spent the entire last episode talking about all the reasons why they've kind of created the system we're in. And so without lobbying or lawsuits, how are consumers even going to get access to the ability to do this? And so there has been a big push.
KIMBERLY
so there has been a big push. to try to open it up so that people have access to instruction manuals and have the parts available and also the tools to do the repairs. And also one big thing, and we've talked about this in other episodes for various reasons, is just the available people with the skills to repair this, who open up shops to do this. And so... This is a huge problem. So we've got, first of all, the technological barriers, right? Increasingly, devices are more sophisticated and complex. And so like in the last episode, I was talking about our washing machine, like that's way more sophisticated than our other one was. It's a lot harder to repair. And the expectation is we'll just replace it with a new one rather than try to repair it, even though it's going to send us a code and say, here's what's wrong with it. You know, that's we're going to say, oh, do we really want to spend this much to get a repair person to come and then pay that much for the repair part when the life expectancy for washing machine now is five to seven years and we're already four years in.
JORDEN
No, exactly. And or even just like the it's funny, I would talk about how I think cars are really easy. I won't touch a washing machine with the self -balancing sensors and like they've made it so complex that, you know, it's funny on my grandparents gold mine. They actually had purchased second or probably fifth hand, like an old 40s Maytag ring washing machine that was 15 bolts and the entire thing was apart. So we could clean it and put the entire thing back together now to something where if you put. that drum in, push on it the wrong way, the entire machine won't work. And unlike, you know, a $30 code reader for a car, there's no ability to do that, at least that I know of, you know, easily for a washing machine. And it's funny, I looked up, I was trying to see like, what's the price of this. So I found consumer services, you know, in the out of the US estimated that the average cost based on like 20 ,000 survey responses for a washing machine repair was $125. If you went down about 10 paragraphs, you found that this was a big asterisk of if you could find a machine washing repair person.
KIMBERLY
For certain. And if you do, excuse me, we had a dryer that we were able to repair because. The person who came, he said, if my younger version, whatever co -worker had come, he wouldn't have been able to do this for you because he didn't know that this one thing did this one thing that caused the dryer to turn off. And all you need, like all we really needed was this $30 piece that he had and he was able to repair for us. So that worked. But if his colleague had come, we would have paid for the person to come and he wouldn't have been able to fix it. And then we would have had to get a new one anyway.
JORDEN
Yeah, so it pushes people just to skip that. And that's the thing. If it's getting too technical on some of these base appliances for the people who this is their job to do, you know, in that case, doesn't really leave much hope for, you know, somebody like you or I to kind of go down and start pulling apart our washing machine.
KIMBERLY
Well, and with the washing machine, I mean, that used to be if it was unbalanced, you just bang into it a few times and it would rebalance itself, right? Like seriously. Now, when we first got our new one, we couldn't figure out how to wash bedding in that thing to save our lives because it just kept restarting itself and it would just keep restarting. And then we finally sort of figured out what was okay to put in and how much and what cycle to turn it on. It has a bedding thing, but that didn't actually work for everything. And so it was like this. trial and error that took us a while to learn how to use our smart device.
JORDEN
I have a saying I use most often in relation to Microsoft Teams and that it's you think you have so much control in life until technology reminds you that's an illusion.
KIMBERLY
Yeah.
JORDEN
I feel like that's so much of our modern life is like, yeah, no, we're in control until you're like, we are arranging our laundry schedule around the balancing needs of our laundry machine.
KIMBERLY
Well, and companies, so we've got this with the software, with the digital parts of it, but also the proprietary parts and the specialized parts and the software locks and everything that sort of is built in place to make, to like discourage you every single avenue to try to repair. And so the more complex the device, obviously the less likely it is to have a manual. Why would they even bother to put one in? So there are some groups that have gotten together and have decided they're going to take that thing apart. They're going to show you exactly how to do that. And they're going to put it out there for everybody. But ordinarily, if you think about it, and I didn't actually really think about it until I prepped this episode was if a manual comes with a device, it's a user manual, not a repair manual. And it'll awful. It will often give you troubleshooting tips, but not how to repair a broken part or where to get replacements for that. So when my. when the bowl and my food processor first broke, I wrote down the make and model and look to see if I could go online to find it. It wasn't that it was, you know, part of this in my KitchenAid manual, like, here's what you do if this happens. It was like me going and trying to find this. And it turned out the KitchenAid actually does sell a new bowl. And I put that off as long as possible. Now I have to break down and buy one. But at least at least that's there. But that's one thing. OK, so that can be replaced. But if it was the motor that broke, there's no way.
JORDEN
No, exactly. And then you think about limiting access to this, you know. Two things. One, limiting access to the supply of parts so that the price of parts is so high is a big part of this. And then it gets to they can they can kind of just say, well, there's not a lot of demand, so we can't produce a lot. But there's not a lot of demand because it's priced outside the price at which people would pay for it. So it becomes a vicious self -justifying cycle of not doing anything from the company's kind of perspective. But the other thing is just. The use of proprietary as a word is like I'm at the point we've used it a bunch this episode and I almost want to chuckle when we say it now because. It's not like they have a proprietary quantum light drive or something like, you know, like that is actually innovative. It's a proprietary screw that can be only opened with our proprietary driver that we created specifically so that only you could use this specific thing for our thing.
KIMBERLY
specifically so that only you could use this specific thing for our thing.
JORDEN
Yeah. Or a proprietary cover that is. a heat sink, but it could have just been a normal one, but no, but it actually locks in all of these parts. So you can't access them is what it's really doing. And so, you know, I think people hear proprietary and they're like, oh yes, trade secret. You know, like, of course we want a company to, I don't want to steal that, like what makes this good, but that's not what we're talking about in the majority of these cases.
KIMBERLY
Code word for our way to keep you out.
JORDEN
Essentially. Yes.
KIMBERLY
And so. We talked about the lack of skilled workers for repair work. I mean, we already have a deficit of skilled trade workers, especially we've seen this definitely from COVID, from the time of COVID as well, just the lack of people who are, and there are, the reasons are evident for this, right? It's a socially undervalued occupations. The focus is on college education. Often these are people who are self -employed, so they lack healthcare and benefits and people to fill in for them if something, if they need a day off or want to take a vacation, they may not have a reliable income stream. And so there are a lot of reasons to dissuade people from doing this. So a lot of times repair shops end up being either something that has been in a family for a really long time and has managed to hang around, or it's somebody's hobby. And so when it comes to that, now looking at repair for the right to repair, I had a hard time nailing down numbers on this. The closest relevant statistics I could get were for trade laborers. And the McKinsey report from 2022 estimates that the sector demand... to in they're going to increase by 20 times more in the next 10 years than what it already is and this is while the number of people in the field is actually decreasing and so we're missing like and and also then shutting out immigrants because they tend to make up the people who are the carpenters and the plumbers and the ones who are doing construction and so forth and so this whole industry is under threat in terms of being able even just to have people do Actual things like you need to have your house repaired. We're not even talking about having your appliances repaired.
JORDEN
No, exactly. I think about as a personal example, my mom has had a vacuum, an Electrolux vacuum. That was another one of those,
KIMBERLY
was another one of those, right? That you could have repaired and they had service centers and parts and so forth.
JORDEN
And so when I was around, by the time I was, you know, nine or 10, there was still a repair shop in Calgary. But by 16, I remember literally driving an hour and a half to another city. Because that was the last repair shop that my mom could get to. And she was just adamantly as long as this vacuum could be repaired, it would be fixed because she loved it. And that was it lasted her just over 20 years. And it was that the repair shops had all finally and that last one in Red Deer was exactly that, you know, an older gentleman who had done it forever. And none of his kids went into it because it was barely surviving. But, you know, he had done well enough in the heyday of vacuum repairs that he was OK and could keep doing it. But there was no option after that, right? Yeah,
KIMBERLY
Yeah, I grew up in the middle of nowhere. And we actually had an Electrolux repair shop in the next town. And even here... When I first when we first moved to the west side of Cincinnati, there was a shoe repair shop and it was these two old Eastern European guys. He and his brother had opened it and none of their kids wanted to take over. And so when they finally like age, I don't know, 70 something decided they just really wanted to retire. They were just sort of doing it just because still. And at that point, the place closed and that was the end.
JORDEN
Yeah. And, you know, at the end of the day, you think about like if the. if they don't have the parts or the parts are too expensive like it's really weird because the demand is there but why like i'm just trying to think through why don't you see this and if it just ends up them charging you 150 to say you have to repair it that's not a career anybody wants and it's not going to get used as a service very often so the while there might be the demand for it the economic incentive to do it is really missing from this
KIMBERLY
And certainly the newer versions have more appealing upgraded features and they're snazzier, or maybe it gives you a new look when it comes to shoes. And it's just easier to repair them than to toss them than to repair them. And so, you know, again, that cost benefit analysis, how soon would you have to replace it again anyway? And so aside from like the niche products or niche companies or just... really good quality. I mean, there are still shoe repair shops, but they're not in my immediate vicinity. So I have to go out of my way to have them repaired. But that's that upfront cost. So of course, you're going to be more committed to that, even if it means sending them away to have it done. But the thing is, too, one thing I think that's interesting about the right to repair is that it doesn't necessarily have the expected outcome. Even though we would think, oh, well, everybody being able to repair their own stuff or have it repaired, this should be a win -win -win all across the board. But there was an article of a study that was done in Management Science in 2022 about right to repair legislation and the effect that it could potentially lead to actually having a lose -lose -lose outcome. It threatens a manufacturer profit. So that then has sort of a ritual effect that then the consumer surplus decreases and then it increases the possibility for environmental impact, negative environmental impact, despite the repair being actually made easier and more affordable. So what they have found is that as this, because now in the United States, every state now has the right to repair on the books to some degree or another. And it continually actually lowers the independent repair cost. But then because you have the demand for more repair shops potentially, then that throws off that balance. And then the manufacturers may actually initially cut product prices to then only raise it later. So it's this really weird, like the effect is not at all what you would think and expect that it would have on customer availability and how the customer benefits. how the manufacturer would respond to this situation. And you would think it would be better for the environment, but that's not necessarily the case.
JORDEN
Yeah, but I think that for listeners that have followed us along in the last episode on this one, it kind of, I mean, it tracks with what we've talked about, right? Because... You know, consumer surplus is the amount of money available for consumers to spend on other things after that purchase. Right. And so and as we talked about, if you're pushing for right to repair and manufacturers know that they're not going to get as many consecutive sales out of you, as we talked with other brands, that raises price. Right. Because they have to make their money that way. So that makes sense. Right. That they would do that. But that's going to take away consumer surplus over generally because you spent more for that good. That makes sense. The environment. impact i looked a little bit at it i was i thought they were a little like the study was a little weird on how they were calculating that and it seemed to come down to exactly what we were talking about of locking in right and they were i think relying a little too much on that verse waste but you know not my study So I'd say on those two things, but so it really comes down to is, are we valuing total consumer ability to buy more and more? And so if that is the highest good that is being optimized for, then yes, something that raises the cost of products is going to be seen as a lose for the customer. But if we're actually valuing time with that good, if we're valuing the, you know, overall, like the year, so this is how I was always taught to buy stuff. Time spent with item divided by money. That is how like that maybe maybe cheap family. I don't know. But I mean, from that value, I've maximized my value of this product. So I as I looked at that study, I think it really comes down to how they were defining consumer surplus that really drives. Is it a loss for the consumer or not?
KIMBERLY
Well, that's also whether it's a loss for the environment or not.
JORDEN
Yes, right.
KIMBERLY
right. It's very much what you just described is just the cost per wear, too. It's the same exact thing. Like the more times you wear it, of course, the cost is going to go down, the less likely it's going to end up in a landfill sooner. More likely if it's better quality, even if you're done with it because you're just tired of it or it doesn't fit anymore or whatever. It's still going to go to a thrift shop and somebody else can wear it or, you know, use the fabric from it or whatever.
JORDEN
But I can definitely see how for like if you're. are you know not engaged on this issue and you don't value it you saw these laws passed and then prices are just going up for your goods i can see how that would be like not seen as a win right especially as we mentioned you know with consumer prices already and and corporate resistance to actually allow for a rate to repair means that it's happened and come about because there are community repair initiatives that have been out there pushing
KIMBERLY
I can definitely
KIMBERLY
and corporate resistance to actually allow for a rate to repair means that it's happened and come about because there are community repair initiatives that have been out there pushing So you see these, the support for repair shops and workshops that can teach repair skills. And as we talked about in the last episode about just people online offering just their information just because. And so we have more independent repair networks and so forth. And the whole iFixit has been around for a while now. It's a right to repair. It's actually a company. But its whole sort of raison d 'etre was to publish free manuals and sell tools and parts for repairs, or at least let people know, to partner up with places that will sell the parts and the manuals that allow for this. And they rate companies by their repairability scores. So they say, you know, if you're looking to buy something, you might want to buy this over brand over that one, because you then if something breaks, you have a much better opportunity to repair it on your own and get a much longer lifespan out of it than if this one breaks.
JORDEN
No, I mean, the other one I had mentioned, because I talked a lot about cars and repairs, most big cities now actually have services where you can rent. Bay space. So basically pull your car in and they have the tools and they have a staff on hand that can kind of point you in the right direction if, you know, buying all those seams. So there are or I know of other collectors where you can rent home repair tools from them. Universities are also a really great option for people to check out that have a surprisingly large rental selection of stuff from camping to construction that you wouldn't think of usually.
KIMBERLY
I know we mentioned in one episode to our public libraries around here. There are some public libraries in the area that rent out. Basically, you can not rent because you're not you just give them your library card and write in there. You can check out tools and so forth to use, which is makes a lot more sense than somebody who's not likely or doesn't have the space. If nothing else, they just don't have the garage space to keep the tools.
JORDEN
Or the upfront cost to get into it too, right? And I think that especially if we can take, there's a lot of options that take that barrier away. And then it really becomes the barrier of knowledge, comfortability, and the specific company's product you're talking about, right?
KIMBERLY
Well, I know that especially Apple was one of the companies early on that I fix it. They were like a battle with, a vicious battle with each other over. Apple absolutely not wanting iFixit to be able to get into its products and be able to show people how to to fix them. And and you mentioned that that has changed.
JORDEN
Yeah. So in 2022, Apple launched a self -service repair program and they had done a couple of steps leading up to it, increasing the licensing for certified repair shops, both owned by Apple and third party so that there'd be a greater access to that. And it doubled the official parts that they'll sell between 2019 and 2022. So that was a big one. Now, this is for going a couple of things, a big asterisk with Apple. It was for go forward models only. So parts will be coming out for models only, which doesn't help anybody who's bought anything previously. And it's still relatively limited and the price is quite high. So even I had a laptop that went down last year and to replace it was to replace the part I needed was 75 % of the cost of a new laptop. And it was already a five -year -old laptop. One thing I like about Apto laptops, they typically last longer than a PC laptop. But to sit there and say 75 % to, you know, kind of not go up to the new one, it was really hard to look at. And, you know, when Apple announced this program in 2022, iFixit actually tweeted, quote, we never thought we'd see the day and said in a statement, soon after notably bad press, Apple has found unexpected interest in letting people fix the things they own. And I think I know you have a couple other examples here of Samsung and Google. I think this really got to we talked about how there's a calculation between the brand value that you're getting from selling versus the impact to the brand from these lawsuits and negative press. And I think that in the last couple of years, we have seen I think we're starting to see the switch of that where the press is enough that they have to. And as I said in the last episode, be dragged towards this. And these are the steps that you're seeing there.
KIMBERLY
Well, I think that other companies started to see the direction the wind was blowing with Apple and the publicity they were getting and realized, okay, we're going to open this up. We're going to sort of nip this in the bud before we end up in the same situation that Apple did with this. And I also think that there are a lot more people who want the right to repair than actually will intend to ever repair or use that, take that as an option. And I think those companies also started to realize that they weren't nearly going to lose out quite as much as what they, you know, what sort of what the popular opinion was in that direction that they far, far fewer people were going to take advantage of these things anyway.
JORDEN
No, and as we talked a lot about in these last two episodes, because the consumer, you know, incentives to do this, right? Like at the end of the day, this wasn't one that was locked in by regulation in any way. Going back to my GM and Ford example, we started making the choice for yearly updates as soon as it was available. And I noticed, I thought this was interesting to that kind of point that Samsung actually partnered with iFixit. And I'm sure they loved the brand validation that that gave and signaling their great intentions. But that ended in 2024 with the quote, Samsung does not seem interested in enabling repair at scale. And so it goes to that tension of even... i agree with you this i don't think this will ever actually be a massive part of the the phones or any other technology that people will just start you know creating a little tech room in their house where they take them down take them apart and repairing it but to still see that the companies still have that hesitation and and it's kind of token actions towards it makes me makes me sad because even for let's say any percentage that you could cleave off, right, is less in the landfill. And it's those little actions that why fight, why fight little things like that is kind of nefarious. I'm going to use it again, Kimberly.
KIMBERLY
Well, I think too, when you look at cost benefit analysis, it's not just about the actual amount of money that you're paying out. It's about how you spend your time and how much time it's going to take a person that they have to. And if you're, if you don't have those innate skills to do that, and it's not some fun hobby thing for you to do. then that also is not going to be worth the trade -off. And so in 2022, Consumer Reports did a survey in the United States, and 84 % of Americans said they agreed that manufacturers should make repair information and parts available. Well, of course, because if you ask any American if they want to be more independent and have access, then of course they're going to say yes. But I'm willing to bet that only a small percentage of that population will actually use that information.
JORDEN
Yeah, it's there's a stack going around right now that I think is kind of another example of this. And it's what it reminds me of is that 80 percent of Americans want to see manufacturing increased. When asked in the same survey, 22 percent of Americans want to work in manufacturing. Right. So there's a lot of things where it's like, do I want this thing for as an idea? Sure. As long as it's for somebody else. I am glad that this is not a.
KIMBERLY
am glad that this is not a. the politics, guys, and we don't have to talk about this because this maddens me in terms of what people think they want and what people vote for what they think they want and what the reality of the situation is. And so I'm glad we don't have to talk about that. But we will talk about government because governments certainly have an incentive to encourage, right, to repair because there is public opinion says, hey, yeah, we want this, right? And also, In some ways, it is a way to hold corporations a little more accountable. And as we talked about in the landfill episode, which prompted this whole set of episodes in the first place, waste management falls on them. So anything that decreases waste that they have to be responsible for, that's going to work in their favor too. And in fact, for a variety of reasons, Sweden was at the forefront of encouraging the right to repair. And that was in 2016. And they introduced tax breaks into the system that even though at the time it meant that they had to take a $54 million loss in collecting taxes, they let anyone for a wide variety of repairs not be paying taxes on the repair of those goods.
JORDEN
Wow. I hadn't heard of the Sweden one. I mean, and your tax policy through tax codes has that great kind of, you know, monetary incentive really directly. I know in Canada here that it's been an area that's been rising and recently a bill was passed. See, we have the. You know, you can say what you want about America, but you guys come up with good bill names. You know, they get remembered. You can easily say them. I'm always struggling because how am I supposed to remember Bill C -244 from this session of Parliament? But it was ours looking at changes to the Copyright Act because the Copyright Act is a big way that companies in all countries use to protect their intellectual property and stop right to repair. So we went in and did a couple kind of common sense things like included computer programs under technical debt is technical, the technically defined under the Copyright Act, adding a section that explicitly allows diagnosis, maintenance and repairs of technology, including computer programs that can't be stopped by companies now. And then explicitly encouraging the role of repair service providers. And so that was really responding to a growing push for right to repair here in Canada. And it was an overlapping one. Farmers have been a major driver for these right to repair laws in both the U .S. and Canada, particularly around farm equipment. And this I didn't know if I was going to do this separately or but I think I want to bring it in here because it's been an interplay between the court cases that are really driving some of this and then driving government policy. And so there's a really famous case against the Deer Co., you know, John Deere Tractors, who've been in battles with farmers and farm groups over the right to repair for decades now and really throttling that back. It kind of reached ahead in 2023 when they signed a memorandum of understanding with the American Farm Bureau Federation. That both, you know, then the Federation thought would really kind of start moving the needle on increasing access to tools specifically and diagnostic tools. So this is where it's really bad on that. Like you need a special sensor. We won't let you have it. Much like the some of the cases we heard in tech, this didn't work out well because in January 15th of this year, 2025, the Federal Trade Commission, along with Illinois and Minnesota attorney generals. sued Deere and Co. again over the, quote, use of unfair practices that have driven up equipment repair costs for farmers while also depriving farmers of the ability to make timely repairs. And that was the John Deere case was even something that I was aware of because they are notorious for actual like definitely claiming proprietary like this and that.
KIMBERLY
that was the John Deere case was even something that I was aware of because they are notorious for actual like definitely claiming proprietary like this and that. And for sure.
JORDEN
And we've talked about in other episodes the power of the farm lobby. So I think this is a really interesting conflux of different forces because normally I'm, you know, kind of lamenting the power of the farm lobby in some ways, especially on the environmental side. But this is one where, no, when the farmers unify and get angry, representatives, and especially in farm states and up here in Canada, same, have to take notice. And you don't want to be the company that's, you know, being seen as ripping off farmers or stopping family farmers.
KIMBERLY
And so the European Union has gone actually slightly before what Canada has done in adopting the right to repair with their directive that went into force in July of 2024. And they actually have a wide range of things that require manufacturers to repair a product for reasonable price and within a reasonable timeframe after the legal guarantee. So after the guarantee is up, they still have to do this. They need to require access to spare parts, tools and repair information. They have incentives to opt for repair, such as like repair vouchers or funds. They have online platforms that assist customers in finding local repair shops and selling refurbished goods. And so they're really pushing in that direction to allow, not just allow for, but to facilitate. the right to repair on you know again as we've talked about many times in the show that europe has like less land they need to deal with waste more efficiently they have and they're like ahead of the curve on all of these environmental things for the most part anyway and so it's not surprising that this would come out of the european union whereas in the united states it's still like okay most states you know states have this to some varying degree or another and And it was definitely the pressure on the auto industry first to sell replacement parts. But then when you look at the states and like, OK, California, the ones that you would expect that are sort of on the on the further ahead are the ones exactly you would think of. But then you look at some and they're like, yeah, OK. But this is where I think sometimes our side kind of fails because I could see this and,
JORDEN
is where I think sometimes our side kind of fails because I could see this and, you know, I'm not an American. So correct me if I'm wrong. I spend a lot of time talking to and dealing with American politics. And my thought would be I wouldn't try to sell us in America as an environmental thing. I would package this as a freedom bill and take it to Congress and make you make red states and blue states stand up and say they don't support the freedom of Americans, you know, not be shackled to corporate yokes like that's how I would go. And I don't know. I think that's what I say,
KIMBERLY
what I say, you know, with with the survey. Yeah, Americans are all behind this, but. But when push comes to shove, you know, they're not going to put their pocketbooks where their mouth is. And so, you know, this is going to be, yeah, yeah, we want this. But at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, states are going to do whatever they want to. And where there's more interest, it'll get passed. And where there's not, you're not going to have that sort of same unified, like really concrete policy. directive that came out of the European Union. And I thought it was interesting too, that even there's even organized advocacy group in Mexico pushing for the right to repair for the auto industry. Yeah. And it was interesting when I, when I was in Mexico, just to see, like, I'm always fascinated when I go to, when I travel with developing countries, because they are so much better at repairing and reusing. And you, especially with automobiles, like you see that people will just, you know, buy completely trashed. broken or crashed automobiles and they'll be sitting outside of repair shops because they're just salvaging them for parts and there was a whole row there a few cities i've been in new mexico where there are whole rows you can walk through where it's just like repair row and they can repair every single type of small appliance to small engine to whatever you name it to large vehicle because that's so much more out of necessity whereas in developed countries united states and And Japan has that same sort of push for it, but like half -hearted, you know. And it's not, for these places, it's not about necessity. And now for the farmers, I think that's a little bit different because farm equipment is just unbelievably expensive. So I can see why they would have a much more vested interest. But generally speaking, when we talk about right to repair for European Union, Japan, United States, so forth, it's more like, eh, we're hobbyists and we want this right to be able to do this, to tinker and to, maybe to carry on our repair tradition or whatever, or autonomy to be able to do this ourselves. But it's not necessary. If you're in an emerging economy or you're in a developing country, it is absolutely necessary to do this.
JORDEN
No, exactly. I mean, and then, I mean, the one country I can think of that I've traveled to where I didn't see it that you might think, oh, like the economy would fit was China. Did not see any sort of like broad recycling. That was because they had the broad, cheap consumer products that were, so it was cheaper to go buy another, you know, toaster there than it was because they were manufacturing it for the world. So not only that,
KIMBERLY
only that, but the fact that that is also why they cut out recycling. It's accepting it because they had so many, so much domestic consumption that they reached that point by the end of the 1990s with so much disposable income with much better. a standard of living and quickly rising purchasing power parity, that because of that, more people, they already had enough of their own disused stuff to deal with. And they didn't want other people from around the world anymore. And so, yeah, that's the one like sort of weird exception to this. But you go pretty much anywhere else in the world, you're not going to see that because you don't have that same manufacturing hub that you have with China.
JORDEN
Yeah. And so there's one other kind of interesting exception to this kind of episode I wanted to bring up. And it was a case where the right to repair laws or lack of them have hurt a company in a major way. Because, you know, we've kind of been focused on how this can benefit companies. But, you know, all companies buy from other companies. So this is a famous one. I mean, and I think listeners might have this, but I don't know how often, you know, how many times have you been to McDonald's? I don't know, Kimberly, but have you ever been there when the milkshake machine isn't working?
KIMBERLY
Yeah, I've not I don't spend much time at McDonald's. No, but I have heard of this. Yes.
JORDEN
Yeah. So it's a big thing. I remember working there in high school. I worked at a McDonald's and the machine was down more than it was running. And there was a very much a shrug attitude like it'll get fixed when it gets fixed. So I recently learned that the one company, the Taylor Company, has had the exclusive right to produce and repair all milkshake machines from McDonald's for over 70 years now. It started with a handshake deal with Rick Rock, and it led to one of the biggest kind of like forced monopolies. They have built the entire system of milkshake machine to have multiple digital locks so that you can't repair it. One company tried to repair it, basically broke into it, wanted to read the codes, and it just spit out nonsensical codes. So you can't even know what's wrong. Their machine actually reads the code to give you the real codes. They really want to keep these machines on lockdown. So this got to the point where another third party company startup out of America built a device that would jailbreak them essentially for you and started selling to franchisees. McDonald's, because of the contract, had to stop that because they would have gotten sued by Taylor Company. This all led advocates to take the Taylor Company to court and eventually through the United States Copyright Office, it actually got an exemption for all commercial food preparation. equipment now so this is again it was just about these milk shake machines but it's blown up and basically they said you cannot put digital locks on these products to stop other people from repairing them so hopefully now that this has kind of been you know opened up by the the copyright office those of us that enjoy mcdonald's milkshakes might have less time being told no i'm sorry we have to wait 20 days for repair guide
KIMBERLY
Well, that is a really interesting story. I find it hard to believe that McDonald's would have walked themselves into such an ironclad sort of deal.
JORDEN
Yeah, and been held hostage to it, right, for 70 years now. So I just thought that was an interesting example of there's also a bit of a short -termism even on the companies, not thinking of how this can actually hurt them by locking them into suppliers and into, you know, basically more expensive options.
KIMBERLY
So as far as the direction things are going with right to repair, I think that, you know, I sort of feel like on the one hand, this is a really good thing in that even though there are some caveats, as we mentioned throughout, that maybe the consumers don't benefit quite as much and maybe it's not. I mean, environmental impact might not be what we hoped for this. If more people would move in this direction, it would be a better thing. If more people, even if just giving consideration to what they're buying and the possibility of it, even if they never take up on that, that puts companies into a position where at least they have to be more accountable for what they're making. But then there is a pessimist in me, the skeptic that says, I just don't really see that many people caring a whole lot about this. And they just want the convenience and they're just going to buy whatever is the most glitzy, appealing, cheapest thing for them at the time.
JORDEN
Yeah, I'm I'm a little. Torn to because so like you, I don't think this will ever even if we had great right to repair laws passed. Let's just say, you know, university or, you know, America and Europe kind of do it and lock it in that it's been cheaper for companies to build all their products that way. Right. Then to kind of force because of how big the markets are. I still don't think you'd see a mass movement of people repairing stuff. I know I've made the passion plea for people to work on cars. I've been doing that for 20 years and I haven't. I've convinced my friends. to call me when they you know right that that that's definitely happened but what i think it does do is it leads back to the first episode on planned obsolescence as long as this stays at a at an 80 plus issue that people think they like i think having those laws in actually put pressure that we get away from some of the planned obsolescence and design because if they have to be designed for a right to repair that changes that kind of design process and i think that's how this will have the largest impact not by actually through people kind of keeping their own goods in service longer.
KIMBERLY
Yeah, I think, too, that there's just the labor shortages of skilled labor and laborers and the fact that a lot of these repair shops have just gone away over time instead of actually growing in number. I think that there are I think there is sort of a resurgence of them. But generally speaking, I don't think that that's the future of the direction we're going.
JORDEN
Yeah, I mean, but I'm also, like I said, excited by seeing my generation be more focused on DYI and, you know, re -upcycling items. We had to create a new word to make it sound better because people didn't want to just recycle something. So they're upcycling now and painting it all green. But that's another story. I am encouraged a bit by that. Or, you know, I know Michael and watches, right? I know, like, I've seen friends who have gotten into building watches or saving for that better purchase. I've mentioned on the fashion episodes, like the shoe company that I go for. I also do feel that there's a bit of that growing value shift on our purchases. And like, I don't I don't think we're going fully to a world where we're not focused on the convenience purchase. I do think we're there's a potential that we're moving to more of an equilibrium between the two. And that would be.
KIMBERLY
be. I disagree. I think that we're outliers. I really think. I think that we and the people who we probably are listening and people who we are generally associate with are people who are the outliers, who who we're thinking about these things and and trying to get like the average person to think about these things. And I always go back to the harried lifestyle with input coming from every direction and 50 ,000 commitments and zero attention span because everyone's overcommitted and on their phones all the time and all of that. And all of that's going on simultaneously. Like, how is anybody going to worry like, oh, I should have my iPhone repaired instead of just, oh, my gosh, it broke. I need to replace it as soon as possible.
JORDEN
No, no. So that's I don't think that'll happen either. My contention is that if these laws are in place and Apple's designing a phone that lasts three extra years and that person never has to think about it, they just have a phone that is now a five year phone. That changed, you know, as a big thing for me is building the system. So people just have to live their life sustainably because I agree with you. I don't think people are going to change their life to be sustainable. So that that was where my hope was coming from.
KIMBERLY
OK, so so our hope is that we hope that now companies will expand out of that two year replacement cycle to more like a five year replacement cycle. But I'm sorry. The capitalist system.
JORDEN
The capitalist system. Yeah. Kicking and screaming the whole way.
KIMBERLY
Yeah, yes. Well, we can hope that things go in that direction. If you enjoyed our episode on Sustainable Planet, or even if you didn't, let us know at splanetpod at gmail .com. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube. You'll find these links in our show notes along with our website, on our website at splanetpod. Along with additional resources from today's episode, you can read my Substack post via that link. We'd appreciate it for you to rate and review Sustainable Planet on whatever you listen to it on. And thanks for listening and have a sustainable day.
